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 Post subject: Ultraxion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:10 am  
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I just want someone else to look and tell me if there is something very wrong that I didn't get a single Owlkin Frenzy proc on this Ultrax kill...

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6wyfa ... 559&e=9900

Is this a bug?


Last edited by Omhotah on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:40 am  
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Also, did I really not benefit from lust? That seems like a bug in WoL, as I think I remember getting the buff, but the other members of my raid team have it show up in their buff log.


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:04 pm  
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Same here, I didn't get OF procs on Ultraxion 25N. On the EJ thread people are also reporting no Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m445as7n5m6hpfnu/details/20/?s=8511&e=8853

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:51 pm  
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Wow... Yeah, here's another log (10 N). 5 attempts (the 5th one being the kill) and not a single proc:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/gugkhzet ... boss=55294

On the other bosses:
Morchok - 1
Zonozz - 0
Yorsahj - 5
Hagara - 2

So, it seems like "unavoidable" (using the term really loosely here) damage will not proc it - stuff like Ultrax's shadow crap, the damage from ping pong on zonozz - but random AE that's not a core part of the fight will (I'm guessing Morchock's stomp won't proc it either - I probably got hit by either black stuff or a crystal).

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:21 am  
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With all of the phasing required using Heroic Will, do we really see this as the staple DPS burn, Patchwerk esque fight when considering melee are probably going to have an easier time with this type of mechanic?

I suppose it's not even just melee. This might be a Boomkin specific issue really, as Affliction locks and such dots continue to tick while in the physical realm, and they aren't constrained to reapplying at specific criteria. When we have to shift for that second it seems to really dampen our rotation and reapplication of dots, putting a huge detriment on our DPS.

I've seen Arcane mages dps appear almost unaffected by the phasing, but just the fact that if you need to Heroic Will you are talking about the time it takes to cast either of our nukes, increasing our time between eclipses, NG, and dot reapplication.

Perhaps this mechanic just singles us out more than any other class, is sure feels that way.

I was ilvl 380 on my initial post kill and pulled ~29k. Druids with 390 ilvl and DW are only pulling ~32k much much lower than WC/Sims are telling we should pull in single target engagements. Perhaps there are techniques which have yet to reveal themselves.

Have we considered the four point dot application technique, to help alleviate our longer cycle? Tusca, how were you applying dots?


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:34 am  
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I have Omhotah's issue, too. I thought it was just me, but my DPS was significantly lower than it was on comparable fights. Having an Ilvl of 384 without Legendary and without Lust, I roughly pulled 29.5-30k, if I wasn't randomly melee'd by the Boss or died due to pushing the limits of activating Heroic Will.
Started the fight working towards Solar, I've noticed the first Hour of Twilight occurs when you have 5 Lunar energy left. It gets very very close when you try to clip the dots (since they'd likely fall off on the way to Solar) right before you enter the normal realm. I'll try heading to Lunar first on Sunday, maybe this works out better, since one mostly clips DoTs in Solar anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:44 am  
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I checked my logs and I didn't get any procs on Ultraxxion as well. As far as dps, I was able to pull 35k on our kill. Here's the log if you want to compare.

I was waiting until Hour of Twilight had <2 seconds on cast remaining and on Fading Twilight I would Heroic Will at 4 seconds to ensure it would be off CD for the next Hour of Twilight. My ilvl is 387 w/legendary & DI.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... e/advanced

All in all, we're 7/8 this week with 5-6 pulls on Madness and I think Blizz did a great job on the fights (gotta love multi-dotting).

edit to add WoL (whoops) http://worldoflogs.com/reports/a3yq3v9z ... 420&e=2716


Last edited by nuitfire on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:46 pm  
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Arániko wrote:
I have Omhotah's issue, too. I thought it was just me, but my DPS was significantly lower than it was on comparable fights. Having an Ilvl of 384 without Legendary and without Lust, I roughly pulled 29.5-30k, if I wasn't randomly melee'd by the Boss or died due to pushing the limits of activating Heroic Will.
Started the fight working towards Solar, I've noticed the first Hour of Twilight occurs when you have 5 Lunar energy left. It gets very very close when you try to clip the dots (since they'd likely fall off on the way to Solar) right before you enter the normal realm. I'll try heading to Lunar first on Sunday, maybe this works out better, since one mostly clips DoTs in Solar anyways.

At the risk of going even further off topic, why do you have only 5 lunar energy left in your first cycle to solar? If you have T12 4pc, it's only 4 casts of 25 energy each (assuming no euphoria/DW procs), and without T12 4pc it's 5 casts of 20 each. You shouldn't be casting starsurge until you hit solar, because it adds an extra cast in there (and with T12 4pc you shouldn't hardcast SS outside of eclipse anyway).

Omhotah wrote:
This might be a Boomkin specific issue really, as Affliction locks and such dots continue to tick while in the physical realm, and they aren't constrained to reapplying at specific criteria. When we have to shift for that second it seems to really dampen our rotation and reapplication of dots, putting a huge detriment on our DPS.

Just curious, are you suggesting our dots don't continue to tick when we're shifted? I wasn't paying very close attention during the fight (I was way more worried about missing a shift).

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:07 pm  
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No no, I most certainly think that they continue to tick (although, I'm not sure how the WoL combat log parser deals with that, perhaps a bug there of missing dot ticks?), it's just that as opposed to the affliction lock who doesn't need to to worry about application of dots during a bonus (ie. Eclipse states), the nuke casts that we either interrupt/miss while having to phase shift impacts our overall dps much more than other classes because the overall rotational time between eclipses dictates when we reapply ours. These missed nukes cause our dots to fall off prematurely and often times at a particularly inconvenient interval (ie. outside of Eclipse).

Lets say you need to phase shift at 10 lunar energy (or anywhere in lunar past 80-65 really) on your way to solar. You are getting ready to cast your last SF with a SS proc on the back end to get to 30+ solar energy when the shift HAS to happen. Now you shift for a second or two, and begin casting your SF again. You've lost atleast 2.5 seconds worth of nuking time: 1 second safe measure + ~1.5s> SF (as a rough estimate). This is going to make your Lunar powered Mf (with IS obviously) to expire well before you get to solar, but not within 1-2 casts of solar, which is the acceptable wait time. In solar you don't need to worry about it as much because people usually apply in and out of solar, but lunar and in between can cause a lot of havoc.

Other classes don't have this interaction (to the best of my knowledge).

Perhaps going the route of using the extremely low haste intro dot application technique of in/out of solar AND in/out of lunar may prove more predictable and increase overall dot uptime->dps on this particular fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:16 pm  
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Another thing I'd like to address if the WoL debuff tracker. Says Nuitfire casted Heroic Will 9 times with an uptime of 6.6%. My log says I casted it 5 times with an uptime of 49.6%.

This seems bugged, or very misleading, as I was using Heroic Will at the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT, often times with less than a second to spare.

That log also doesn't show that I received Lust, so maybe it's related.


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:35 pm  
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Omhotah wrote:
No no, I most certainly think that they continue to tick (although, I'm not sure how the WoL combat log parser deals with that, perhaps a bug there of missing dot ticks?), it's just that as opposed to the affliction lock who doesn't need to to worry about application of dots during a bonus (ie. Eclipse states), the nuke casts that we either interrupt/miss while having to phase shift impacts our overall dps much more than other classes because the overall rotational time between eclipses dictates when we reapply ours. These missed nukes cause our dots to fall off prematurely and often times at a particularly inconvenient interval (ie. outside of Eclipse).

Lets say you need to phase shift at 10 lunar energy (or anywhere in lunar past 80-65 really) on your way to solar. You are getting ready to cast your last SF with a SS proc on the back end to get to 30+ solar energy when the shift HAS to happen. Now you shift for a second or two, and begin casting your SF again. You've lost atleast 2.5 seconds worth of nuking time: 1 second safe measure + ~1.5s> SF (as a rough estimate). This is going to make your Lunar powered Mf (with IS obviously) to expire well before you get to solar, but not within 1-2 casts of solar, which is the acceptable wait time. In solar you don't need to worry about it as much because people usually apply in and out of solar, but lunar and in between can cause a lot of havoc.

Other classes don't have this interaction (to the best of my knowledge).

Perhaps going the route of using the extremely low haste intro dot application technique of in/out of solar AND in/out of lunar may prove more predictable and increase overall dot uptime->dps on this particular fight.


OK, yeah, I see what you're saying. We're going to take a hit because either we'll have a higher uptime of non-eclipsed dots, or a lower uptime of dots in general.

edit: also, just for the record, since we're talking about other aspects of this fight, I did notice a slight eclipse delay when exiting solar/entering lunar. It's not as marked as it was on Rag, but there's definitely time to sneak in an extra wrath on either end. So, just something to watch out for as far as SS usage/dot refreshes go.

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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:48 pm  
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I was seeing that too, you can definitely sneak another wrath in at the tail end of solar. Entering lunar though, about half the time my starfire completed after it hit, and the other half it didn't. Don't really know what to do there.

Also, more on topic, is there a list of OF proc % on DS bosses?

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 Post subject: Re: Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:57 pm  
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I renamed the thread to just Ultraxion, can a mod move this to the Boss Strats forum and delete this reply please?


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 Post subject: Re: Owlkin Frenzy on Ultraxion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:22 pm  
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Eluial wrote:
At the risk of going even further off topic, why do you have only 5 lunar energy left in your first cycle to solar? ...


Oh no, I meant 5 lunar energy left as in "5 energy left of lunar eclipse". You can roughly complete one circle, Solar first, starting with 0 energy, before the first Hour occurs. Basically exactly what Omhotah said in the following post ^^;


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 Post subject: Re: Ultraxion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:21 am  
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Unfortunately, my guild decided to rotate a little and since we have 4 Moonkins currently, I couldn't test starting with Lunar.


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