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 Post subject: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:37 pm  
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Crit-chicken
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I am going to be busy over the next few months and will not be able to do any desivsihve theory crafting but I still would like some answer before 3.2 :P. So this is a call out to all theory crafter, we need to find the out the following information for 3.2

    Does starting with Lunar or Solar matter?
    Should you have both dots up in the pre-proc stage?
    Should you put up the opposite dot (IS for Lunar, MF for Solar, excluded the Tier 8 4 set bonus) when you have the proc, so it flows over the the next proc?

If I think of more ill post here, also if you have any questions that need to be answer post them here.



Stuff we all ready know:

Use a combo 2T8/2T8.5 and 2T9/2T9.5 and only go to 2T9.5 - http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2009/ ... bonus.html
Haste value is greatly reduced after 400, though still useful crit then becomes better - http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2009/ ... lipse.html
IMP MF become useful after 2T9 - http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2009/ ... d-set.html

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:20 pm  
Orbital Owl Cannon
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Starting Eclipse doesn't matter.

Dots: Wouldn't see why not.

Dots2: Maybe apply it toward the end of the Eclipse proc, but barring 4pc T8, I don't think so.

Crit doesn't become "better" after 400. Haste is still better, the soft cap is just that.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:21 pm  
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Orbital Owl Cannon
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I am actually working on gathering this information for MRB 5. So far I have

Start with lunar and twist into Solar (for eclipse proc wise)
Have dots up before proc (like we do now)
Imp MF is good with the new Idol
400 haste is a Soft Cap, not hard cap..NG wont have a 100% uptime so going over 400 haste wont kill you
Apply dots only if they can be applied before 7 seconds left on each eclipse buff, or between procs if able.


The last one is still up in the air and I'm still trying to do some tests. :x

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:42 pm  
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Crit-chicken
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Foofy wrote:
Apply dots only if they can be applied before 7 seconds left on each eclipse buff, or between procs if able.


Both dots or just the related dot?

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:50 pm  
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Orbital Owl Cannon
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related dot is what I have been testing right now, but the numbers are changing so quickly because of the idol. So if I go naked, I don't get the scaling right since I'm not that good at math :(

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:45 pm  
Orbital Owl Cannon
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It's usually been related dot, but without having tested the MF idol, I can't say for sure if this will remain the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:30 am  
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Orbital Owl Cannon
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The MF idol is always up, unless they changed it last time I did some tests, which like I said, it throwing me off on everything. But I'm more than certain that you should apply your respective Dot if he basic rule is:

You have greater than 7 seconds on the eclipse proc

Or

You are on cooldown and you place it up (the one you will need for your next proc) and you have yet to proc (since we all know it wont be an instant thing all the time)

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:26 am  
Orbital Owl Cannon
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Well I'll let you guys figure that out. I'm pretty much done theorycrafting sh*t right now. Just get me the info for the changes required in 3.2 and I'll update the guides, but outside of that, I'm done theorycrafting.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:32 am  
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Orbital Owl Cannon
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Oh? Why?

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:42 am  
Orbital Owl Cannon
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Just at a point where I'm tired of it. It's not fun or interesting for me anymore. There's some other life factors that are playing into it to, but I'd rather not go into details about that. Don't worry, there's enough of you that you won't need me anyhow :)

I'm still going to be around and posting, questioning numbers, and willing to be of help however else, but as for actual hard theorycraft, I'm just done with it for now. Just going to play the game and keep up to date so that the guide can stay updated.

Speaking of the guide, I'll have a rough draft written up hopefully by the end of the weekend, if I remember.

But enough about me, back to Naturi's questions! Anyone else have info that some of us might have missed? Or just to expand on points?

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:19 pm  
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Orbital Owl Cannon
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Wisp, no

No

no no

You cannot do what I am doing! That would leave Graylo and Murmurs as our main theorycrafters and I don't get time to really get into it. My math is usually off and I have you check it and all I am doing now adays on ptr is using a skada meter and testing out different rotations.

/cry

Don't leave me!

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:05 pm  
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I think we will be keeping MF up as much as possible with 2T9. Other than that, DoTs should flow rather well if applied at the pre-casting phase of every new eclipse.

For instance, when a cycle starts, we have the time to throw up both DoTs, but once the first Eclipse procs, we'll maintain MF. At the end of that Eclipse, with 2T9 we will keep up MF and cast IS in prep for the next Eclipse. At the end of that Eclipse, keep up MF, no IS. Repeat. One of the reasons that we used to reapply both DoTs in the cooldown phase was that there was really nothing else to do. Now, reapplying a DoT is actually pushing back the next Eclipse by 1 GCD so you will need to evaluate the worth of that time. It's much like the concept behind the value of the Starfire Glyph. It's the saved cast time that really helps you out.

I'm also inclined to believe that the Eclipse we start with doesn't matter, but I'm likely to run some numbers just to make sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:37 am  
Crit-chicken
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Theorycrafting PTR changes usually isn't that hard. :)

It's major expansion changes that need the most work. Even I get bored with some things from major patches...

That said, what we should do for moonkin DPS is kinda going to depend on what gear you are wearing. It seems like set bonuses & idols are going to matter for when we re-cast DOTs. Also, in the heavy movement fights, you can always try to save DOT refreshing for when you have to move (they let me DPS on Yogg Saron last week... so much moving on phase 1!).

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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:48 am  
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seems like you would want to start with Moonfire and keep it up at all times(exp w/ new idol) then swarm then you want to proc solar since starfire only takes one crit. After that proc lunar when neither is up put swarm back up.

Similar to what out best dps rotation is now with 4pt8 but flopped. Moonfire up all times swarm up when no eclipse is procced. Just wish they would extend swarm it is too short.

At least that is what I am thinking will be the best. right now I am not too happy with moonkin spec in ulduar and have just gotten my 4t8 for feral just in time to see a nerf coming next patch. From now on my offspec pieces will be resto lol.

But logically imp moonfire will be needed now and you will need moonfire,starfire glyphs for sure. Now my question is: What should be our third glyph? Swarm? will it be better than a 1 min starfall due to the ng procs? Or do we see a new glyph coming to increase swarm with wrath(LOL) or even make our trees last 45 secs instead of 30. Has anyone heard of any new druid glyphs?


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 Post subject: Re: Request to theory crafter
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:45 am  
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I'm going to disagree slightly with Liessmoor. I agree with keeping Moonfire up at all times. But don't worry about Insect Swarm except *during* solar Eclipse. Much like the rule of reapplying DoTs as long as there are 7 seconds or more left in Eclipse, you can afford to lose the first GCD during your solar Eclipse to cast IS, thereby increasing your damage for a greater number of Wraths without wasting another GCD.

I agree with Improved Moonfire now for 3.2 (these will be either the two "floating" talent points or two of Moonglow's talent points -- I'm leaning towards the former). Moonfire and Starfire glyphs are obvious choices. Insect Swarm is going to be an awful glyph come 3.2. With an uptime of less than 50% (and that's optimistic), it really doesn't gain you much in terms of overall DPS. Starfall will still be decent, but I'm hoping that they present a more appropriate glyph or two with the patch.

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