The Moonkin Repository

How much do a balance druid have to outperform a spriest to rightfully claim the DI buff? Or is it that much more of a dps boost for the spriest, that it's not ever gonna be a boost for the raid dps to give it the the druid?
Logs for today: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xes8i266u3ed8wo2/

The only fight with mechanics for drawing a fair comparison (shannox because of mostly stand and nuke vs aoe fest) has the spriest over you.

Beth = spread sunfire on everything while popping shrooms under little adds. Spriest wasn't in that fight with you so no way to compare.

Rhyo = looks like most of your dps was from shrooming little adds. Spriest had a lot more damage done to the boss. Again spriest outdid you and deserved the DI since shrooms get nothing from it.

Alys = spriest did more damage to alys in the fight, despite being lower dps overall. This is the only fight in which I would say you deserved DI over the spriest and the haste/dot buff would have actually been better used.


Not sure from your post if you were trying to imply that you were vastly superior to the spriest in dps or not, but the logs you linked do not support that claim.

Your not at the DI & NG haste breakpoint? At that breakpoint you can argue it and I have and do get DI but in your case your dps won't jump that much with DI compared to a spriest at the right breakpoints.

Bribes generally help.

hehe, idd Make sure Warlocks are your best friends = win :P And make sure you don't piss them off or they'll give it to the resto druids :P

I did some math about this a while back, it was just a rough approximation, but it came out with boomkin over spriest by about 200 dps with T12 heroic BiS. This is because of the breakpoint we hit and the lack of breakpoints for the spriest.

The numbers EVERYONE love to bring up as an argument posted on some warlock thread that had tables of values is based off T11 BiS gear. Turns out that boomkins don't get a breakpoint then and spriests do. So no wonder they came out ahead.

Fact is, this buff should go to either a boom kin or a spriest. Whoever can do more DPS.

I'm at no way saying i'm wastly outperforming the spirest.
I just wanted to give some numbers so i could get the feedback of when i could have deserved it and not.

The math for T12 heroics, is that available somewhere? is there any math for T13 done?

I did a simcraft comparison and it came out as a 1151 dps increase for the spriest and 1141 for me. So i guess when i reach the NG&DI breakpoint i'm gonna have to do another simulation. At this point it's about the same.

rather use wrathcalcs to check your dps.

Cant use wrathcalcs for the spriest. So the comparison wouldn't be that good.

at first the 3% dot dmg buff seems like it'd be a really big deal. but in reality it's not worth much more then 200-300 dps. the haste is where the money is. The classic spriest argument that they should get it because they have more dot dmg is not really a valid argument.

Just thought of something someone could do. I'm away from my PC with excel so I can't but compare the DPS of a moonkin without DI from both wrathcalcs and simcraft with T12. The difference can be though of as a change in magnitude. Then run wrathcalcs on the same setup with DI. and simcraft again for the spriest times the magnitude. I'm pretty sure you'll find the magnitude with:
[(wrath - sim)/wrath]

this will really just be an approximation, but if the difference is mathematically worth thinking about as opposed to the players skill (in the case both the moonkin and spriest are doing equal dps) then the difference will be noticeable with something like this.

This seemed pretty easy to simcraft. So I did.

25k iterations, 500 second Patchwerks with 20% fight length variance. I used myself for the Druid (for the haste breakpoint) and the T12H Dragonwrath BIS spriest set. I also ran both against the Druid "BIS" Dragonwrath set in simcraft, even though it doesn't have enough haste for the breakpoint (as a control).

Smo: 37,303
Smo + DI: 38,653
Increase: 1,350
% inc: 3.62%

Shadow: 38,704
Shadow + DI: 40,309
Increase: 1,605
% inc: 4.15%

Druid BIS: 37,117
Druid BIS + DI: 38,393
Increase: 1,276
% inc: 3.43%

It's hard to make conclusions from this because I'm not sure I trust Simcraft - it seems like the haste breakpoint should be worth more than that. But we could be crazy.

I really don't know enough about simcraft. Does this take into account all the finesses of the druid spec. NG uptime, eclipse uptime, eclipsed dots, all then shit you know as well as anyone?

Some of it yes. Simcraft is what it sounds like, it simulates the fight as accurately as possible.

The problem is that it runs off a priority system, and it's quite possible that the moonkin priority system is "wrong" for someone with 4t12, DI, and Dragonwrath - it might be doing stupid things, like refreshing dots too often. I'd need to dig into it further.

Yea, from the research I've done it seems very likely that a dps model will better calculate spriest dps then most others even, especially boomkin. You look at the standard deviation on dps among spriests it's very low compared to all others (expect Arcane mage) so really DI is very very similar dps gain for both. I think it's very safe to say that at least at T12 gear levels,

DI should be on the higher DPS