The Moonkin Repository

Discussions, information and links to all things Moonkin
It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:28 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1 . 2 . 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:31 pm  
KFC
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:38 am
Posts: 17
Offline

How much do a balance druid have to outperform a spriest to rightfully claim the DI buff? Or is it that much more of a dps boost for the spriest, that it's not ever gonna be a boost for the raid dps to give it the the druid?
Logs for today: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xes8i266u3ed8wo2/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:52 am  
Spamkin
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:00 pm
Posts: 56
pbguild: Bunch of Bads
pblevel: 80
pbrace: Tauren
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Cenarius&gn=Bunch+of+Bads
pbarmorycharlink: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarius&n=psychodruid
Offline

M4rtinii wrote:
How much do a balance druid have to outperform a spriest to rightfully claim the DI buff? Or is it that much more of a dps boost for the spriest, that it's not ever gonna be a boost for the raid dps to give it the the druid?
Logs for today: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xes8i266u3ed8wo2/


The only fight with mechanics for drawing a fair comparison (shannox because of mostly stand and nuke vs aoe fest) has the spriest over you.

Beth = spread sunfire on everything while popping shrooms under little adds. Spriest wasn't in that fight with you so no way to compare.

Rhyo = looks like most of your dps was from shrooming little adds. Spriest had a lot more damage done to the boss. Again spriest outdid you and deserved the DI since shrooms get nothing from it.

Alys = spriest did more damage to alys in the fight, despite being lower dps overall. This is the only fight in which I would say you deserved DI over the spriest and the haste/dot buff would have actually been better used.


Not sure from your post if you were trying to imply that you were vastly superior to the spriest in dps or not, but the logs you linked do not support that claim.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:30 am  
Spamkin
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:44 am
Posts: 63
pblevel: 0
pbarmorycharlink: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/neptulon/biodruid/
Offline

Your not at the DI & NG haste breakpoint? At that breakpoint you can argue it and I have and do get DI but in your case your dps won't jump that much with DI compared to a spriest at the right breakpoints.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:42 am  
User avatar

Crit-chicken
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:50 pm
Posts: 535
Location: Memphis, TN
pbguild: Standard Deviation
pblevel: 85
pbrace: Troll
pbclass: Druid
Offline

Bribes generally help.

_________________
Image


Chart for determining your haste breakpoints in 5.0 and beyond


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:37 am  
Spamkin
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:44 am
Posts: 63
pblevel: 0
pbarmorycharlink: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/neptulon/biodruid/
Offline

Tagartou wrote:
Bribes generally help.

hehe, idd :D Make sure Warlocks are your best friends = win :P And make sure you don't piss them off or they'll give it to the resto druids :P


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:05 am  
User avatar

Boomkin
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 111
pblevel: 85
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://cl.ly/C7gE
pbarmorycharlink: http://cl.ly/C5rD
Offline

I did some math about this a while back, it was just a rough approximation, but it came out with boomkin over spriest by about 200 dps with T12 heroic BiS. This is because of the breakpoint we hit and the lack of breakpoints for the spriest.

The numbers EVERYONE love to bring up as an argument posted on some warlock thread that had tables of values is based off T11 BiS gear. Turns out that boomkins don't get a breakpoint then and spriests do. So no wonder they came out ahead.

Fact is, this buff should go to either a boom kin or a spriest. Whoever can do more DPS.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:47 am  
KFC
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:38 am
Posts: 17
Offline

I'm at no way saying i'm wastly outperforming the spirest.
I just wanted to give some numbers so i could get the feedback of when i could have deserved it and not.

The math for T12 heroics, is that available somewhere? is there any math for T13 done?

I did a simcraft comparison and it came out as a 1151 dps increase for the spriest and 1141 for me. So i guess when i reach the NG&DI breakpoint i'm gonna have to do another simulation. At this point it's about the same.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:56 am  
Spamkin
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:44 am
Posts: 63
pblevel: 0
pbarmorycharlink: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/neptulon/biodruid/
Offline

rather use wrathcalcs to check your dps.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:41 am  
KFC
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:38 am
Posts: 17
Offline

Cant use wrathcalcs for the spriest. So the comparison wouldn't be that good.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:20 am  
User avatar

Boomkin
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 111
pblevel: 85
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://cl.ly/C7gE
pbarmorycharlink: http://cl.ly/C5rD
Offline

at first the 3% dot dmg buff seems like it'd be a really big deal. but in reality it's not worth much more then 200-300 dps. the haste is where the money is. The classic spriest argument that they should get it because they have more dot dmg is not really a valid argument.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:18 pm  
User avatar

Boomkin
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 111
pblevel: 85
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://cl.ly/C7gE
pbarmorycharlink: http://cl.ly/C5rD
Offline

Just thought of something someone could do. I'm away from my PC with excel so I can't but compare the DPS of a moonkin without DI from both wrathcalcs and simcraft with T12. The difference can be though of as a change in magnitude. Then run wrathcalcs on the same setup with DI. and simcraft again for the spriest times the magnitude. I'm pretty sure you'll find the magnitude with:
[(wrath - sim)/wrath]

this will really just be an approximation, but if the difference is mathematically worth thinking about as opposed to the players skill (in the case both the moonkin and spriest are doing equal dps) then the difference will be noticeable with something like this.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:30 pm  
User avatar

Crit-chicken
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:47 pm
Posts: 707
pbguild: Rebellion
pblevel: 85
pbrace: Troll
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/chogall/rebellion/
pbarmorycharlink: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/chogall/randomsmo/advanced
Offline

This seemed pretty easy to simcraft. So I did.

25k iterations, 500 second Patchwerks with 20% fight length variance. I used myself for the Druid (for the haste breakpoint) and the T12H Dragonwrath BIS spriest set. I also ran both against the Druid "BIS" Dragonwrath set in simcraft, even though it doesn't have enough haste for the breakpoint (as a control).

Smo: 37,303
Smo + DI: 38,653
Increase: 1,350
% inc: 3.62%

Shadow: 38,704
Shadow + DI: 40,309
Increase: 1,605
% inc: 4.15%

Druid BIS: 37,117
Druid BIS + DI: 38,393
Increase: 1,276
% inc: 3.43%

It's hard to make conclusions from this because I'm not sure I trust Simcraft - it seems like the haste breakpoint should be worth more than that. But we could be crazy.

_________________
Ask me a question, or see what other people have asked.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:54 pm  
User avatar

Boomkin
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 111
pblevel: 85
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://cl.ly/C7gE
pbarmorycharlink: http://cl.ly/C5rD
Offline

I really don't know enough about simcraft. Does this take into account all the finesses of the druid spec. NG uptime, eclipse uptime, eclipsed dots, all then shit you know as well as anyone?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:14 pm  
User avatar

Crit-chicken
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:47 pm
Posts: 707
pbguild: Rebellion
pblevel: 85
pbrace: Troll
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/chogall/rebellion/
pbarmorycharlink: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/chogall/randomsmo/advanced
Offline

Epicgrim wrote:
I really don't know enough about simcraft. Does this take into account all the finesses of the druid spec. NG uptime, eclipse uptime, eclipsed dots, all then shit you know as well as anyone?


Some of it yes. Simcraft is what it sounds like, it simulates the fight as accurately as possible.

The problem is that it runs off a priority system, and it's quite possible that the moonkin priority system is "wrong" for someone with 4t12, DI, and Dragonwrath - it might be doing stupid things, like refreshing dots too often. I'd need to dig into it further.

_________________
Ask me a question, or see what other people have asked.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting DI over a spriest
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:33 pm  
User avatar

Boomkin
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 111
pblevel: 85
pbclass: Druid
pbarmoryguildlink: http://cl.ly/C7gE
pbarmorycharlink: http://cl.ly/C5rD
Offline

Yea, from the research I've done it seems very likely that a dps model will better calculate spriest dps then most others even, especially boomkin. You look at the standard deviation on dps among spriests it's very low compared to all others (expect Arcane mage) so really DI is very very similar dps gain for both. I think it's very safe to say that at least at T12 gear levels,

DI should be on the higher DPS

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1 . 2 . 3  Next


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMaevahEmpire" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) for EMPIRE guild (v3.0.2.2) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group